Copypaste

Copypaste

Postby Kirchen » 2018-08-07 18:06 (Tuesday)

Hi everyone, sorry for bad englado :)

First of all, yes Ive already said a few things or some got rejected but I want to bring some more arguments so @MishimaHaruna  may reconsiders some stuff releated to war of emperium and also for the community. I do not want to sound like i am shittalking I just, again, want to adress some things ive experienced recently.

First of all I want to talk about the community managment again on the server, this is a big problem in my opinion on the server.
We are missinglike 2 or 3 public GM, who are online and speak ingame to the players, provide help with cp, accound settings or ingame topic questions.

Further more, we do miss a PR-GM. Maybe Haru opening his process like implmenting things to the server or working on some topics of the gitlab would be already helpfull here (Streaming twitch/ Having a voice Chat after every Sunday WoE with every guild on the server PVM/WOE about the situation, ideas and bugs wich have been noticed). RememberRO has some sort of Radio at the end of the week, wich is very welcome to the players. Also I feel like the GM-Team is kinda stuckd in the way to handle the community. Gitlab is not much used by the server overall, the forum is dead and Discord is full off players crying over their stolen shop spot or reports with totaly childish topics.

RMS is dead and they best way to manage a community is with "direct" talk via discord / pms and so on.
I feel like Haru is working hard on the Gitlab topics at the moment, but yet again nobody realy knows what exactly hes doing. Is he even the only one working on topics? Are there people assisting him? How is the progress going in terms of new client, anti shake, grf and last but not least the trans update.

We have a big community outside of woe, players who like the social aspect of RO, sitting in the town wearing cute headgears and just talk. But we do nothing for them, we should implement some headgear quests and mini games like race track and things like that. Also we have many players who enjoy pvm content over pvp, but we also dont support them very well. we dont have any chellenging pvm content for them. We have the tools and ideas to keep them busy but dont do anything of that. The last event has been 1 or 2 months ago, way too long ago. Implement small costume items to work for  without stats (red scard , pirate dagger , moving angel wings, Neko Mimi ).

War of Emperium Saturday and Sunday
I was thinking about a quote haru said recently, he does not want to open more then 2 castles for sunday because he is sacred of too many gears and zeny droping out of free tbs from those castles.
But in the end that is exactly whats happening on Saturday since 2 Months, and he doesnt do anything about it. He basicly has 2 choices at saturday, closeing it because there will not be a change any time soon wich will keep ace from dominating, or making it impossible for them to dominate every sitatuion at Saturday. You are asking yourself, Situation? Yes, we have to give players space to enjoy their own style of woe and promote other ppl to randomly show up on Saturday wich will creat more sitautions overall.
So the main question is, why should Haru bring more then 2 castles at Sunday and also on Saturday even though it looks dead.
First of all the way as it is right now, we are completly shuting the doors for smaller guilds to enjyo the woe because they are all forced into castles with 1 or more big guilds. they cannot achiev anything not even see their guild name once to be shouted over the whole server.

Lets talk about Saturday first :
If Saturday has 3 castle for example, there will be a point where ace has to do risky things to get more then 2 castles because they have to split. They simply arent able to defend 3 castle with 25 players against all the random players showing up, because theyll will notice via the woe broadcast that there is something happening. We encourage ppl to take castles, and maybe they notice oh, one assasin is not enough and they ask their friends... and so on, suddenly a new guild is born.
Still there will be the problem for Haru i guess, that hes scared of more tbs. But thats no big deal at all, Change the drops to for example blue herbs, white herbs, elu. Or lower the % drop of the gear, there are many ways to work on that. Or completly delete the tbs out of one castle and make just 2 castles have tb spawning, make one castle have only 50% chance of spawning tbs. Its up to you guys, the gm team.

Next Topic Sunday, is a little different
Sunday has prolly the biggest woe that has ever been on the server. But we have still the problem that their is only one way for small guilds to participate, annoy the main 3 guilds by trapping the castle and protal casting random lvls of the castle or join them.
This is bad, people should be allowed to participate in woe even though they just play as 5 players.
The guilds who participate in woe all talked and agreed that 3-4 castles are worth to try for like 2 months. And here is why:
1-2 Castle do not provide the space wich is needed to give small guilds with like up to 5 players. Not even talking about single players. It starts to work out with 3, but thats prolly not enough because we exactly have 3 big guilds wich will just split over the exact 3 castles. so no goal to achiev here either in the end for the smaller once. maybe if 2 of the big guilds missplay and go for the same castle, or if there are already so much smaller guild and single players in a castle thats its to messy to make sure a singel big guild can get the castle 100%.
The best thing is 4 castles because there is one free castle kinda for the lower guilds and if one big guild would get greedy they'd have to split their members in the last 5 minutes wich can be dangerous and end up in not getting a single castle.
Tbs would need some rework overall, some increase in drops in the one castle, some % less in the other. maybe some other items added like Blue herbs, stems, white herbs, fcp bottles things like that. This way u can taunt guilds onto certained castles by making a sort of tier list with tb drop difference in the castles. U can open 4 castles of one random realm each month, this way u just need to code once, the castles and the tbs for each castle.
Other thing ive noticed again, we realy need real pt traps. Yesterday showed again, that if u decide to zerg, there is no way u gonna be holding the ground against a equal guild. This way u force the guilds into the emproom and bind the whole woe there. If this realy is your goal, we can set up a lokis def once and the castle will be closed for anyone else. Hivemind already witnessed it, and Mighty Ducks didnt even use pre cast roster or lokis, back in payon when i did that for the luls. https://youtu.be/2GVNTTFBmVM?t=17
But for me , and most of the players ive talked to, there are more lvls then the emproom and fights are supposed to be happening and not to be avoided by zerging. Things like this https://youtu.be/CvLu8heBFiQ will never happen here without working traps. Because we simply cannot use the castle to its full potential without the traps.
I think you should trust us, since we disscussed that on a discord for almost a week. And agreed on 3-4 castles be the best option. We are the guilds playing here woe atm on sunday, and we all want the server and the woe scene to grow even more. Just berry was against it, and wanted the minority to adapt and join major guilds or dont play woe at all / keep annyoing the major guilds with random pre casts on portals or trapping the entrance. that is not the right way imo. We can easly test it for 1-3 months, and if that doesnt work at all we can just lower sunday to 2 castles for example.
Other Topic is still BG, it would give so much more activity to the server. And adds a very needed additional aspect to the game. (No BG equip) but just its own econemy with bg mats only etc.

Get a better way to communicate with the playerbase, the recent reddit posts are awfull PR.



I hope this is not too much pain to read through.
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Re: Copypaste

Postby Bryant1991 » 2018-08-08 00:05 (Wednesday)

Hey man, i think this server is lack of GM. And i think they’re looking for another active GM. You should apply man. I know the server community is kinda dead know and its sad. I was hoping the same thing, many events and more community to grow.
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Re: Copypaste

Postby Xellie » 2018-08-08 00:08 (Wednesday)

I know we don't exactly see eye to eye but I wanted to comment on some of the things on this topic. I think it's a good discussion to have!

Firstly, yes it would be nice to see more from the staff, I guess they are kinda snowed under because they need more staff right now. But it would be a great thing to aim for when they do have more people. It's be nice to know what they are working on and how that progress is going - but at the same time that might create unreasonable expectations on behalf of the community.

More headgear quests is always cool. There can never be too many of those <3



War of Emperium saturday:
I don't believe much can be done to help that situation. From my understanding (I'm still a bit noob on this server so forgive me if I'm wrong here) lots of people are out because of summer holidays etc and more guilds/players will come back when summer is over? What inevitably happens when one guild goes uncontested for a while is that guild loses members. And it is happening on saturdays. I'll pep talk the rest of the server into not worrying so much about roster, just try! You might be surprised what you can do without a perfect setup.

War of Emperium sunday:
I strongly believe that adding castles on sunday would encourage more players to take part. Like Kirchen mentioned, you get a chancer assassin trying to solo take a castle, then they realize they need friends and a new guild is born. Competition wouldn't be mellowed at the end as the guilds would get greedy and compete for multiple castles for bragging rights. It's definitely something worth thinking about as the current setup is exclusive only to those whom already play - and growth is good! It's just very hard to recruit here due to server size.


Traps:
I don't think changing to pre-amatsu traps that don't hold friendly units would be a wise move, but I do believe that the buff they recieved recently is a bit too strong. Especially with guild sizes this small. You can easilly lay down 10 traps and that's more than 1/3 of a guild immobilized. A single rogue or hunter removing the traps isn't a reasonable response because they can be easily targetted down or even worse, the traps could be in Loki.

Battlegrounds:
it would be fun if the rewards were catered toward pre-trans play.


tldr; Kirchen has some good ideas. More communication from the staff would be a great goal to strive toward and WoE could use a little editting to make it more accessible from more players.
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Re: Copypaste

Postby Berry » 2018-08-08 01:35 (Wednesday)

Agree about the staff stuff. My personal opinion from having been staff here before is that this part won't be fixed unless the core staff changes their mentality regarding community staff autonomy though. I know I personally lost interest in staffing fast from feeling like I was micro managed by the higher ups. No point in adding more staff if they have to run everything by senior staff anyway, it doesn't change the workload of senior staff, just adds another step to the process.

Hopefully this is something the devs have realised by now, since it's something multiple former staff members have complained about.

As for WoE I've said my piece on gitlab already. I don't agree with opening more castles, but wouldn't mind being proven wrong. If it does work out the way you think it would then that's great. I just have my doubts.
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Re: Copypaste

Postby Bertrandite » 2018-08-08 05:58 (Wednesday)

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Last edited by Bertrandite on 2018-09-20 22:17 (Thursday), edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Copypaste

Postby zed638 » 2018-08-09 07:49 (Thursday)

While I do agree with Kirchen when it comes to appointing more GMs and caretakers, the points about WoE is where I feel we should stick to what we have right now.

Saturday is only dead because Olympians are taking forever to roster up and fight Ace. And if you and the rest of your guildmates feel so strongly about it, why don't you guys join Olympians for Saturday and contribute to the fight? We see many of you trying to get into the castles individually; might as well join a guild and just add to the fight.

And the point about adding castles on Sunday is still premature. We have had amazing wars for almost 2 months now and that is because there's only one castle to fight for. The moment you open two castles, MD will sit on one, HM will sit on one and Ace will try to get one of them only. I really like Pink Martini for how they regularly make it a point to participate in WoE but they're not yet ready to put up a full-fledged fight with one of the three established guilds.

This is obviously a discussion and these are my opinions. But I feel, for us to open another castle on Sunday, we'd need almost 50 more WoE-able people and it'll make sense. Right now, we're roughly about 80 people who fight for one castle and that sounds fair, to be honest. If we get more people, then it'll make sense to open another castle.
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Re: Copypaste

Postby Kirchen » 2018-08-10 15:49 (Friday)

zed638 wrote:

And the point about adding castles on Sunday is still premature. We have had amazing wars for almost 2 months now and that is because there's only one castle to fight for. The moment you open two castles, MD will sit on one, HM will sit on one and Ace will try to get one of them only. I really like Pink Martini for how they regularly make it a point to participate in WoE but they're not yet ready to put up a full-fledged fight with one of the three established guilds.



PM already quit saturday because their is nothing to achiev for them. and soon theyll prolly do on sunday aka leave the server. we are completly bottle nacking the woe. we need more then 2 castles now, like really now to keep the other guilds on the server.
You are completly wrong about MD and HM, I dont think you understand the kind of woe both aim for and what the goal is behind the additonal castles.

Its more like that Ace is going to sit in a castle for 50 mins, and HM and MD will gvg is the best castle for gvgs.
And the third castle can be used by smaller guilds.
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Re: Copypaste

Postby aamod_27 » 2018-08-19 06:54 (Sunday)

Hey guys, nice to see some discussion about WoE. Sorry Kirchen, but i have another perspective at seeing the current WoE scene and i don't agree to your proposal related to WoE.

After being on this server for about 2 months and witnessing the WoE scene on Saturday & Sunday , here is what i feel.

First i would like you all to go through this old WoE video of our guild way back in 2012. The server shut down later due to GM corruption, so its not a promotion :D  :D . If some of you may know it, it is from ForestRO , where we played under the banner of Team RetRO. I hope you enjoy the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExNpQ5e9MAE

Now, back to the discussion:
1. Guild Caps : One very big reason the WoE scene on OriginsRO is bad due to absence of guild caps. Summarizing the WoE scene here , it is just Big Alliance(+randoms) Vs Big Alliance(+randoms) . The result is 40 people fighting the other 40 people from 2 big guilds. Which in turn is preventing the formation of newer guilds. Guild caps were first restricted to 18 people, then raised to 24 people(due to large population) for WoE on ForestRO.


2. Alliance : Even after the participation of people from 1 guild, they are allied with 2-3 more guilds which gives an additional power of 10-15 people. Obviously when one guild becomes huge, others merge together to take it down and the circle continues.


Hence, my suggestion, to break this cycle of people stacking on either sides. Put a guild cap of 18 people to start with, no alliance inside WoE, Test it for a WoE or two, then raise the bar to 24 if needed at all. The result will be more WoE guilds, fighting on their own without concentration of power inside one guild. When we have enough WoE guilds, then think about opening more castles.


The suggestion for adding more castles is only to bring down one huge guild is wrong. It will not promote new guilds.


But then again, will the admin and the community agree to this...or when will the admin team take note of this...we'll have to wait and watch.
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Re: Copypaste

Postby Kirchen » 2018-08-19 10:32 (Sunday)

no offensive here, but i that video i see u DS, bards stunning and assassins in woe. So i am not sure if u realy understand woe

Edit : even worse, pecos are stunning
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Re: Copypaste

Postby Xellie » 2018-08-19 11:13 (Sunday)

aamod_27 wrote:Hey guys, nice to see some discussion about WoE. Sorry Kirchen, but i have another perspective at seeing the current WoE scene and i don't agree to your proposal related to WoE.

After being on this server for about 2 months and witnessing the WoE scene on Saturday & Sunday , here is what i feel.

First i would like you all to go through this old WoE video of our guild way back in 2012. The server shut down later due to GM corruption, so its not a promotion :D  :D . If some of you may know it, it is from ForestRO , where we played under the banner of Team RetRO. I hope you enjoy the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExNpQ5e9MAE

Now, back to the discussion:
1. Guild Caps : One very big reason the WoE scene on OriginsRO is bad due to absence of guild caps. Summarizing the WoE scene here , it is just Big Alliance(+randoms) Vs Big Alliance(+randoms) . The result is 40 people fighting the other 40 people from 2 big guilds. Which in turn is preventing the formation of newer guilds. Guild caps were first restricted to 18 people, then raised to 24 people(due to large population) for WoE on ForestRO.


2. Alliance : Even after the participation of people from 1 guild, they are allied with 2-3 more guilds which gives an additional power of 10-15 people. Obviously when one guild becomes huge, others merge together to take it down and the circle continues.


Hence, my suggestion, to break this cycle of people stacking on either sides. Put a guild cap of 18 people to start with, no alliance inside WoE, Test it for a WoE or two, then raise the bar to 24 if needed at all. The result will be more WoE guilds, fighting on their own without concentration of power inside one guild. When we have enough WoE guilds, then think about opening more castles.


The suggestion for adding more castles is only to bring down one huge guild is wrong. It will not promote new guilds.


But then again, will the admin and the community agree to this...or when will the admin team take note of this...we'll have to wait and watch.


There's no alliances except the alliance that formed yesterday for saturdays only. You need to study the situation more closely.
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