Round Table Questions

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Re: Round Table Questions

Postby Lace » 2019-03-11 19:31 (Monday)

Slotted memory book was in until you made your very polite recommendation that it was too op. We sat down and talked about and agreed with you, thus we removed it.

Thank you for your suggestion.
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Re: Round Table Questions

Postby Niriw » 2019-03-11 21:19 (Monday)

Lace wrote:I'm so glad that we can't go a single day without you complaining about something.

This is not an appropiate response coming from a Staff member. I thought we were past these sort of responses after last year.

Regarding the items that were taken out. I already made the arguement on Discord on these items, I know you won't change your mind. But here it goes again.

The items you removed don't make sense to remove. Katars are barely better than Jurs + Endow, Assassins in general are terrible, they get outclassed in almost every situation. Pantie and Undershirt is 5 Agi and 10 Flee for "free", but realistically, these items will be worth over 25m each, how many items are even worth 20m? most of them are incredibly rare items like low chance drops of minibosses and mvps. If someone wants to roll dices and on average spend 50m just on 2 pieces of +4 equipment, I don't see how that is overpowered, when you have like 6 GTBs on the server already and other MVP cards. If in your opinion, an item that is a 1 in 10.000 roll is less overpowered and worth being in, instead of an item you have to work for by grinding the materials and the zeny for it, so be it. Same arguement for Memory Book, but Memory Book's worth is around 30m (probably more due to increased demand if it was added). Realistically, how many people will have slotted P+U? or Memory Book? P+U 1 every 200 players? Memory Book 1 every 300 players? That's rarer than a 0.01 drop.

Schweizersabel? You have to kill the new MVP, which is not that easy with Pre-Trans characters, and then slot it, for a mid tier item at best. Removed Gungnir but kept Gae Bolg? Gungnir is good, but it is still less damage than a Pike, the only bonus it has is the Hit and Perfect Hit, which is highly situational. Survivor's Rods, they don't really do much until Survivor's Manteau, the extra 400HP is nice on a low HP class, not a big impact, since a Sage uses 4xDrops or 4x Fabre Knife anyway. Poison Knife, Sucsamad, and Ginnungagap are alright and situational, they don't do much, except Ginnungagap in emperium breaking times, but this is a PVM server anyway, right? Not like it matters much to you. Assassin Dagger? If this was the newer version of it, then it would be good, in its current state, garbage. Zephyrus? PVM only item, only useful for Agi Crusaders. And again, the prices of these items are going to be high, they are NOT easy to get and socket enchant.
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Re: Round Table Questions

Postby Hefferwolf » 2019-03-11 21:47 (Monday)

Kirchen may contradic himself in the way he did suggestions, given that he changed his mind within a short period of time. This might be frustrating for the people who are taking care of suggestions. However this does not mean you can treat him in a disrispectful manner. Lace, you may be fed up, but you're a GM, it is expected more of someone who is in charge of something, set the example of the ToS you enforce so vividly. That response was uncalled for, take a walk, breathe and reply in a proper manner. Mathy, this is the second time i've seen you say something about Kirchens way of writing, the first one was rough, the second one is just mocking him. I've seen many people posting discord conversations and maybe you got the concent for posting or maybe it was pubic, but it appears to me it was private conversation and thats not allowed afaik. Given than you both are in a power disparity with kirchen, your posts are no diferent from regular bullying. A shame, really.

-------------------- On topic -------------------------

Slot enchant npc add more variability on PVM and don't really affect woe balance. You could argue memory book with slot is a powerful equipment in a wizard, but it doesn't really increases its damage in a dramatic fashion, its just doesn't force them to go full on glass cannon, which they may very well need in terms of balances given how strong bowling bash is at the moment.

There are several reason on why consider nirwis argument beyond balance. The one that I think represents the most of the player base is getting new stuff to play. Yes, it is true we just got the update, however, as a player that likes every aspect of the game I think it gives a new zone without nw gear. so , at least from my perspective the slot npc gave a wide fan of options from where to approach the current update. Restraining and cutting off options might just reduce the amount of ways to experience the game as a player and I believe thats not really desirable from a gameplay perspective.


PS: I'm really surprised you guys are saying to took the memory book off because of Kirchen message. I guess ultimately was the desition of the discussion between the staff agreeing with kirchens original argument. That doesn't mean hes not allowed to change his mind and tell you he was wrong onhis first thought process. When it comes to balance and meta discussion, even in our guild are opinions really different on the approach about how good/bad something can be. He changed his mind, you guys can do that too.

PS2: Don't ignore this post and close topic like on other issues, its kinda rude.
Last edited by Hefferwolf on 2019-03-11 22:16 (Monday), edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Round Table Questions

Postby Lace » 2019-03-11 22:14 (Monday)

We agreed with the original point and do not agree with any of the counter arguments being presented. We will not be including any of the removed items from the slot enchant until a later date.


Now kindly do not derail this topic any further. If you want to talk about the slot enchant npc in depth, make a new topic about it.
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Re: Round Table Questions

Postby reneus » 2019-03-11 22:43 (Monday)

reneus wrote:i really liked the update so far!

I just got one question:

Will Kiel Quest+Dungeon implemented with rebirth or maybe even a bit earlier?
It would bring some new gear and a at least a MvP who is a little bit more challenging pre-rebirth than the ones moving around atm. The Kiel quest for an OCA is a nice guild acitivity for non WoE guilds too.

Since the maps aside of the quest/dungeons maps, are already there it would only need a few changes of rebirth only gear i guess.

(/bo)


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Re: Round Table Questions

Postby Lace » 2019-03-12 00:05 (Tuesday)

reneus wrote:
reneus wrote:i really liked the update so far!

I just got one question:

Will Kiel Quest+Dungeon implemented with rebirth or maybe even a bit earlier?
It would bring some new gear and a at least a MvP who is a little bit more challenging pre-rebirth than the ones moving around atm. The Kiel quest for an OCA is a nice guild acitivity for non WoE guilds too.

Since the maps aside of the quest/dungeons maps, are already there it would only need a few changes of rebirth only gear i guess.

(/bo)


 (/hmm)

We've been considering this exact thing, but don't take this as a confirmation. Plans might change.
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Re: Round Table Questions

Postby reneus » 2019-03-12 06:39 (Tuesday)

Lace wrote:
reneus wrote:
reneus wrote:i really liked the update so far!

I just got one question:

Will Kiel Quest+Dungeon implemented with rebirth or maybe even a bit earlier?
It would bring some new gear and a at least a MvP who is a little bit more challenging pre-rebirth than the ones moving around atm. The Kiel quest for an OCA is a nice guild acitivity for non WoE guilds too.

Since the maps aside of the quest/dungeons maps, are already there it would only need a few changes of rebirth only gear i guess.

(/bo)


 (/hmm)

We've been considering this exact thing, but don't take this as a confirmation. Plans might change.


Thank you (/kis)
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Re: Round Table Questions

Postby Styx » 2019-03-18 10:07 (Monday)

Nertak wrote:I know the answer to this will be "no" but maybe we shouldn't get Homunculous on this server ever. I don't remember them offering any positive aspects to the game at all, but I do remember them causing a lot of problems.

Real question, Why will Homunculous be able to get xp for 30min of inactivity? I don't understand how any amount of afk leveling is good for the server. Furthermore, it seems to me that the 30min will make it really hard to find cheaters. As a normal player I have to sit around for 30min to see if they are using a macro to move to report them? If normal characters stop getting xp after 5min of inactivity I don't understand why Homunculous won't follow that same rule?

According TOS, TOS migth not be updated correctly. It is 30 seconds for losing autoloot and 5 minutes before losing XP and that last one is custom on this server since it never was official that way,
you always did get experience
official.

To understand some part of Homunculus and AFK conditions you have to read develop Journal III from gravity by Minsoo Lee. His goal was to attract as many legit players as possible, players that would see Ragnarok as entertainment. Ro isn't a sport it's just entertainment, nothing more or less. Your task isn't to capture cheaters, you must be busy with enjoying your own gameplay.
By the time Minsoo Lee did develop Homunculus he was already aware that the Alchemist Class was dropping behind other choices and that is something he wanted to avoid. Also he opened new possibility's. Suppose you did work in a factory for a long time and by some accident you lost control of one hand, how you gonna play this game now? You have to leave because some assholes say it is all about being pushing buttons in right sequence? They are wrong, that isn't why Ro is developed, they were aware the top would be addicted anyway and it was the the top that killed their own prospects by tearing down the pyramide principle. Those players left, feeling not welcome or as noobs had no place or right to play this game at all.
Wether you might agree with something or not, entertainment is the vital key or appproach to make a game succesfull. I understand your your point of view though, and for some part I share your concerns.
However, it is more complicated then the phrase, I don't understand, because you wouldn't understand the basics of this game any longer with that approach.

Because this game is pyramide based, it is a wrong idea that all players will like PvP or WOE, those features are just slight spin-offs to make it more attractive for the elite of better players. For a healthy server it is necessary that most players don't even bother with it. Here is your challenge, you have to understand why they are playing this game. If you can't offer them anymore then just being trash that shouldn't play this game, you are in contradiction with the Gravity approach to attract them all, which is much more as just the small WOE, GVG or PVP based community with their tunnel based vision. Gravity never bothered with winners, they just wanted to offer entertainment for all, even noob players.
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Re: Round Table Questions

Postby Konrawr » 2019-03-21 10:48 (Thursday)

Hello, I'm a bit tired to see everywhere than when trans reach we will have "WoE restricted to pretrans only or trans only" without official statement which IMO are only rumors, but in case it wasn't this topic is really debatable.
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Re: Round Table Questions

Postby Kreuzbube » 2019-03-21 12:52 (Thursday)

We have several settings that allow us to have WoE/castles where trans is allowed and items including trans,
but also allows us to have woe/castles where only pre-trans classes and items are allowed.

It isn't out of question that we could utilize those settings.
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