Grimtooth has some issues

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Grimtooth has some issues

Postby HeadShot33 » 2015-09-03 00:16 (Thursday)

hi i was just wondering why grimtooth is kind of lacking on this server.
it seems like the monster AI seems to not stack on 1 cell and its starting to really annoy me. I cant see myself  doing solo leveling when im not in a party like this and im better off making a knight because the AOE of grimtooth is lacking because of this.
Monsters should be able to stack on 1 cell, instead of taking up individual cells.

Im just wondering if this will be fixed or not. If not i think i will be considering leaving the server, i love playing assassin and grimtooth is one of my fav skills and looking at the state of assassin right now, i hate to see the skill be so inefficient in terms of leveling and overall pvm. There are too many cons to using an assassin compared to other classes, and i dont want grimtooth to be put down like this.
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Re: Grimtooth has some issues

Postby Raie » 2015-09-03 01:53 (Thursday)

Monster AI was changed on official servers a long time ago to make them scatter as soon as you hide. It's working correctly, basically. You'll only be able to effectively grimtooth mob by either A: getting someone else to mob and hold aggro for you, or B: luring monsters into bottleneck areas so they can't spread out too far. You'll probably find this behavior on any server you go to, unless they intentionally change it back to the way it was.
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Re: Grimtooth has some issues

Postby Mathy » 2015-09-03 02:36 (Thursday)

This change was interpreted by us as a balance change/fix rather than a new feature, which is why we implement it this behavior instead of the old one.
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Re: Grimtooth has some issues

Postby HeadShot33 » 2015-09-03 19:39 (Thursday)

I dont see how this is a balance change/fix, knights are so much better then assasin now to solo level with.
They can mobb and do bowling bash leveling so much faster then  mobb and grimtooth.

Assassins inability  to be stun proof in woe and pvm status effects such as sleep/curse/stun is a balance for their rampant levelling speed, and if they dont have a high agi build then it will be harder for them to level in terms of grimmtooth and mobb. i dont see how this is a balance.....

As for knights, i see no cons for them, they can mobb and bowl bash to their hearts content.

And this is probably the first server in a long time that iv seen such an implement.If i were to play iro classic right now,( which i wouldnt cause its such a joke server), or heck any other pre renewal server out there right now,  grimtooth leveling would be soo much better because monsters stack on 1 cell instead of taking individual cells.

I dont agree with this and i believe there should be a poll to implement the proper AI for this, there is a reason why 99% of the pre renewal servers use this AI because its balanced and FAIR for assassins. This is nothing but taking away from the assassin class. in Renewal they have a skill that compensates for the monsters running away if u try to hide and grimtooth, but for assassin in a pre renewal server i have no such skill and now the only suggestion i get from the GM team is to mobb into a bottle neck corner? what kind of ludicrous suggestion is that~!. And forget about leveling with others, the server is too low pop for that.

If the option of not opening a poll for this is available, then im ready to quit the server. its 2015 and i want to play ro the way i have always know it as, and i 100% dont think this is balanced. I Dont think you share the point of view that i have, but think about how this effects other classes (esp knights) and other melee characters. Assassins look like a joke to me right now if this is how you determined to be "balanced", i cant solo level now,and its pretty much good luck finding someone to level with me because of the low population.

I like this server very much, but i dont like this at all. i HOPE you share my concerns some what and plan to change this, if not...... >_>
( i mean com on, im better off making a wiz or a  knight or a crusader because all of them have so much better aoe skills at this point.... im basically a rogue with sonic blow iMO)
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Re: Grimtooth has some issues

Postby Berry » 2015-09-03 21:12 (Thursday)

...Except this is how GT mobbing has been for years. This is hardly a new custom feature. GT mobbing was heavily nerfed a long long time ago. Because it's super cheap, no equips needed AoE. You can open a poll about anything you like, but I don't think people will agree with you.

As for parties, it's not that hard to find them. I see a lot of them going on. Maybe you should ask around a bit?
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Re: Grimtooth has some issues

Postby Styx » 2015-09-03 21:50 (Thursday)

I agree with you somehow, the comment that it is a balance/fix instead of a feature is questionable since they want to stick with original settings as the were.
However, it is complicated since Ro wasn't balanced at all regarding classes during the first episodes.
Therefore you can't compare it with other classes, it makes no sense. You could still could lvl faster as other classes at this stage with an Assasin.
Keep in mind that the approach of Ro has changed a lot, they used a whole team in the past to get input for balance.
Ro was populair in these days but they needed to attract more players for progress, so they started to spice up things to make more classes solo playable.
Probably when Minson Lee left the develop team they lost track somehere and they were only able to balance things for specific groups or playstyle and no longer for a large audience.
When they learned from Pservers and introduced the Kafrashop it was nothing but a commercial trap.
You mentioned solo lvling, you must be aware that Ro community's don't encourage this these days, though most players on a 1500 pop server in the past would prefer soloplay.
Don't get me wrong there is no way, that a soloplayer can beat a party, a good party. There is nothing more efficient as a party to lvl or gaining resources.
Anyway, nobody noticed because there was always someone around to party with and knowledge about the game wasn't at the stage as it is today.
When community's got smaller it became more of a problem to find a party. More or less it caused Ro to encourage gameplay for party's.
That is why earlier episodes became more popuair again also, because of the unbalanced nature between classes the partyplay is more effective.
After all, with a reasonable party you could be 99/50 within a week on this server, solo, it could take a year or more for certain classes.
It is very hard, probably impossible to be aware of the problems a player has with the game due his specific knowledge.
What I like about this server, Haru is steady and I have the feeling he won't get influenced by powerplay of groups for wishes.
Therefore you have to give hem exact information, that could be the only way to change things. Not a poll or threats of leaving.
Tell him exactly why it takes away your fun in the game and maybe he can tell you what the problem is from his view.
I think you have an edge because he didn't already, just he believes it is for balance.
Keep in mind, it is just a game. You can't win anything else as entertainment or friends.
These ancient episodes I don't like at all. If it is too much, just take a break and wait for the next episode for new motivation.
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Re: Grimtooth has some issues

Postby Styx » 2015-09-03 22:04 (Thursday)

Berry wrote:...Except this is how GT mobbing has been for years. This is hardly a new custom feature. GT mobbing was heavily nerfed a long long time ago. Because it's super cheap, no equips needed AoE. You can open a poll about anything you like, but I don't think people will agree with you.

As for parties, it's not that hard to find them. I see a lot of them going on. Maybe you should ask around a bit?


He clearly mentioned soloplay, don't tease him with searching for a party at some stage this could feel as an insult.
He likes to grim, isn't that clear?
I was on classic getting 99/50 in a party doing nothing more as sitting and clicking the same button for days and days while leeching my main char in the same party.
Not a challenge at all, I didn't see it as entertainment, just a boring stage to lvl and stay in touch.
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Re: Grimtooth has some issues

Postby HeadShot33 » 2015-09-03 22:27 (Thursday)

Well i made it pretty clear what i wanted, and im sure there are other people who agree with me.
This server is too low of pop to count on party and iv used #party to look for  someone to party with, but i mostly level solo and because of this i expect down the road its going to be the same way.
I go to college and i want to be able to log on and level, if there is a party cool ill join but if not i want a viable option to level by myself.
Right now there is no options that  are effective, i feel the assasin class is handicapped because they cannot utilize the aoe skill the proper way. And i also dont think gravity was only thinking about making as much money as possible because i do believe monsters stacking on 1 cell is balanced. In terms of economy, it balances prices of  certain items out and gives the economy a better shape and overall health.
In terms of pvp/woe, assasin wont exactly be the best class in this category because they use high agi to make grimtooth/melee leveling  efficient,which in terms of pvp they are prone to a high amount of status effecting skills like dancers scream,wizards meteor storm and other high matk damaging skills  (which assasin is very prone to like storm gust,meteor storm which is a double negative because of magic and the chance to stun assasin, and also crusaders grand cross) and not to mention in melee they are weak compared to knights Bowling bash/brandish spear or monks insane asura.

That being said, classes arent much diffrent until trans comes out and if trans does comes out, the assasin cross will be even more handicapped with the way grimtooth is looking atm.
I really dont think this is  a bright future for assasin on this server if this is how its going to be played. I could probably level faster with rogue,knight,crusader or wizard at this point and that speaks a lot.(aka dont bother playing assasin!)
Not to mention,as someone who also is looking to do WoE down the line, leveling and gearing now is really..... just a bad idea.Not worth investing in assasin IMO.

Mind as well have a knight and have a plain server with a bunch of knights and crusaders running around,because thats the message i see. its balanced to use brandish spear, bowling bash (knight aoe skill) , grand cross or use a wizard and power level your way to 99 be it solo or not, and of ur assasin? well too bad because this is the so called "balanced AI".

I dont think this is fair for pvm,pvp,woe and economic reasons for assasins.

And i dont think anyone in this topic is looking at it from an assasin point of view.
Why party with an assasin when u can bowl bash/brandish spear or grand cross or even team up with wizard using AoE skills, which is a lot less work for a priest, then to run around in circles with your head cut off like a lost chicken with an assasin doing grimtooth on a mobb, in which case the assasin has less DPS and increase probability of death because of the scenario of the priest running around trying to keep the shape of the mobb intact to make grimtooth useful.
Just too much work!
Iv looked at all the suggestions on this topic and none of them seem realistic enough for me to keep playing assasin,i understand GM teams now days dont want to look pushover and weak, but i truly believe this is the wrong monster AI for assasin and it will hurt the community.

I dont see how down the road it will motivate me, grimtooth is one of my all time favorite skills, and new episode,same monster AI,the skill  wont make any difference.
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Re: Grimtooth has some issues

Postby ShadowMaster » 2015-09-03 22:54 (Thursday)

HeadShot33 wrote:I really dont think this is  a bright future for assasin on this server if this is how its going to be played. I could probably level faster with rogue,knight,crusader or wizard at this point and that speaks a lot.(aka dont bother playing assasin!)
Not to mention,as someone who also is looking to do WoE down the line, leveling and gearing now is really..... just a bad idea.Not worth investing in assasin IMO.

And i dont think anyone in this topic is looking at it from an assasin point of view.


Brother my 2 Main Characters are assassins and the two of them are high level. 99 (Crit Type) and 97 (WoE Build). I don't have knights, wizzes or Crusaders. (Well I did make a Crusader but only a low level one) . I do understand you. I started playing here when they didn't changed the AI. My first assassin was somewhat level 80ish by that time and mobbing in seals was my way of leveling (I also prefer solo leveling). But when the time happened that they changed the AI and I can't mobb in seals anymore (But I did understand why they changed it). I changed my way of leveling. Yes i did had help from parties but mostly I did solo leveling to 99. But yeah it was crit type. so it would be useless in WOE. Thats why I made another Assassin for WOE. And I can just say, not for boasting stuff, but My WOE assassin is a force to be reckoned with. So I do hope you don't lose interest in playing one.

If you need more advises about where to level assassins in this server without relying mostly on grimtooth, I'll help. Just contact me in any of my Characters. They are written in my signature. And I didn't made a knight coz solo leveling a knight is too costly in terms of pots.
Last edited by ShadowMaster on 2015-09-03 23:11 (Thursday), edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Grimtooth has some issues

Postby Kreuzbube » 2015-09-03 22:59 (Thursday)

We're looking into this, more details to come.
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