Grimtooth has some issues

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Re: Grimtooth has some issues

Postby Makaze » 2015-11-24 16:14 (Tuesday)

Kreuzbube wrote:Sorry for posting a statement of us so late, but here it is:
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=975&p=5042#p5042

Just to leave a note here too, assassin has always been my favourite class, and while the ais for monsters for this episode do not match up, its not a hindrance to a point where it's game breaking. It literally just takes a bit of extra work. Alternatively you can go to hos with an ice katar, less hp so it'll be faster and less of a hassle for similar exp. All the ai change does is make the whole lower hp means faster kills bit more important when grimtoothing. This means anolians will be even worse. Seals have a pretty big hp pool compared to hos, but in a smaller area.

It really sucks that the ai is like this, this early in the game, and personally I would prefer the old ai too, but it shouldn't be so bad that it would stop you entirely. I would try reflecting on that and seeing if another class might be better for you, in my opinion. Sins and sinx has been hit by nerf after nerf because of complaints in a lot of servers because often, others are lazy. They don't want to gear up, or research their class. So when they meet a proper sin or sinx they don't like it when they level fast and effectively. I believe I've heard the same arguments about leveling priests in anubis, and asura mvping.

Tl;Dr, while I would be in full support for the ais that are suppose to be around this time in the game, its not something worth obsessing over and letting it ruin the game for you.
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Re: Grimtooth has some issues

Postby Makaze » 2015-11-24 16:18 (Tuesday)

Hawk wrote:I support the change back to the old behavior of mobs, so that it fits the server's name OriginsRO. The least I ask for is consistency, that means, if you defend this "fix" of each mob needing space on a separate cell, then also fix it in general i.e. mobs also do not stack without being hidden, but first find a free cell before attacking.

The stacking in one cell is because two players moving at the same time can end up in the same tile. However, its to emulate close to how limited players are. If you stun 5 mobs on 1 tile, after it wears off, they actually stay on that tile for a bit too, similar to how you can use backslide and first aid to be on the same tile as someone.

Doing that to fix the mobs would only make it worse for sins, and also other aoe classes like knights or crusaders for leveling.
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Re: Grimtooth has some issues

Postby Hawk » 2015-11-25 20:28 (Wednesday)

Makaze wrote:
Hawk wrote:I support the change back to the old behavior of mobs, so that it fits the server's name OriginsRO. The least I ask for is consistency, that means, if you defend this "fix" of each mob needing space on a separate cell, then also fix it in general i.e. mobs also do not stack without being hidden, but first find a free cell before attacking.

The stacking in one cell is because two players moving at the same time can end up in the same tile. However, its to emulate close to how limited players are. If you stun 5 mobs on 1 tile, after it wears off, they actually stay on that tile for a bit too, similar to how you can use backslide and first aid to be on the same tile as someone.

Doing that to fix the mobs would only make it worse for sins, and also other aoe classes like knights or crusaders for leveling.


This was written in sarcastic way since the people most hurt by this change in game mechanics (I won't say the word "fix" here) are those playing grimtooth assassins and those people who want to pick up items on the floor when another character is near. I only wanted to point out that one should either "fix" everything concerned with the "multiple entities on one cell"-problem or leave it as it has always been, instead of obviously nerfing just one class with it.
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Re: Grimtooth has some issues

Postby Makaze » 2015-11-26 05:34 (Thursday)

What you could try, not saying it'll work or not, is bring it up as a community proposal. See if it would be okay, if there was enough agreement on the server to change it, and if so if they would due to popular demand. Personally, I would be for the change, but then again I come from an age in ro that dinosaurs walked the earth. Lol. The old ai is the one I knew.

Edit: Most mmorpg's mechanic updates are due to things like this, gravity has implemented, removed, and implemented things again, or removed, implemeneted, and removed again. Look at mail for example. A simple, polite, and of sound logic request that is explained properly is not something that will be ignored. For example I've made this inquiry already in the tech support area, and there is this here too. Why not ask Haru, and the team if it can be left up to public vote for something like this, as we are in an episode that pre-dates the change, an argument could be made for it.

However, if they do change it, and you're at 99 and complain that there is nothing to do, you did ask to be able to level a bit faster.
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Re: Grimtooth has some issues

Postby Styx » 2018-04-06 20:23 (Friday)

Now, when some years have past it might be a good idea what happened exactly and post it here. After all the grim issue was mainly caused by Renewal complications, not because they did change this during Pre-Renewal.
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Re: Grimtooth has some issues

Postby andis » 2018-04-18 06:14 (Wednesday)

I wish the mobs behaviour would be normal when it comes to mobbing for grimtooth
(/go)  (/go)  (/go)  (/go)  (/heh)  (/heh)  (/heh)  (/x)  (/o)  (/x)  (/o)
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Re: Grimtooth has some issues

Postby HeadShot33 » 2018-04-20 19:09 (Friday)

andis wrote:I wish the mobs behaviour would be normal when it comes to mobbing for grimtooth


(/lv). inb4 knights with earth deleter card....oh wait  :D

"just too many possible exploits of it"Oh really,we all have time please seeend it.

"Also we don't exactly know how Aegis(Official Server Software for Ragnarok) behaved back then,
but we are trying to get a version of Aegis that gives us more insight on that"  

Ok

but your opening statment is this....
"monsters as soon as they miss aggro(because of hiding for example),
will try to split, so that there won't be 2 or more monsters on one cell"----(this is a renewal AI behaviour mind you)

But i thought you just said you dont have evidence of how AI behavior was,so now your just adding RENEWAL AI BEHAVIOUR(which is exactly what it is, nobody has seen this AI behaviour until renewal), because you see it molds a more balanced gameplay,er sorry ("too many exploits",which has yet be stated).
Also worth mention Grid lines existed in this episode,but you removed the grid lines for Bowling Bash knights,because you see it molds a more balanced gameplay.Picking and choosing what you like best,and at this point i believe its not from a game balance perspective.

I even read some where kreuz saying he tried  grimtoothing with this AI behaviour and is do able.The hell it is,this AI change was meant to destroy the idea of solo grimtooth leveling  (/bzz).
"we're not strictly and blindly following the official episodes; we don't aim to be the same as every other "classic" server; there is often very little evidence about the official servers behaviors and intentions"

OK,but we are saying that (drum roll for another Haru quote)   "it would work better this way even if potentially custom",which in reality your removing the AI that should exist originaly...IN THIS EPISODE.
Also,How can you add taekwon before trans and now there is talk of ninja/gunsligner before trans?.HOW IS THIS DETERMINED FROM A GAME BALANCE PERSPECTIVE.
Because you dont want to "blindly" follow offical episode?I think your "blindly" adding things as you go here,without really thinking about it from "game balance persepctive".
Can you imagine woe with taekwon/gunslinger/ninja added in this episode? Full buster gunslingers,full strike ninjas,and flying side kick taekwons.Not to mention the pvm impact.WOW "GAME BALANCE"  (/shy)

And yet until recently you had motd with party bonus combined with floating rates,not to mention the possibility of mr kim stacked on top of this....wow lets KEEP talking about balance. (/bzz)
Not to also mention you had Grand Cross saders running around with a faster cast time for YEARS.

This is the kind of response you give after such a huge nerf to a already weak class in this episode.
"Well it nerfs Assassins in solo leveling definitely,
but if you have a tank/mobber(which supports party leveling),
it would be easy again.(/no1)

Anyways,
thanks for your feedback, we'll consider it and discuss it internally.
(/lv)"

10/10 response,brb ill just go find myself a tank mobber so i can use the skill "grimtooth".I find it intresting that during the assasin job change,the npcs mention being on the fringe of society and stay in the shadows.Well shit,i better go find myself a steel body monk and get out of the "Shadow",because apparently one of my skills has too many exploits

Im so ecstatic for what the future holds. I want to see what in your agenda is "game balance because after all,'this should work this way in this episode" is void.
And also what else would be nerfed  "because it would work better this way even if potentially custom"
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Re: Grimtooth has some issues

Postby Konrawr » 2018-04-23 12:33 (Monday)

As an old Assassin I understand your disappointment but don't be this mad bruh. Imo the only thing that staff want to balance is the mobbing leveling and unluckly Grimtooth is greatly impacted due to Hide. As any balance choice some class get prejudiced.

A wise man said once :
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PS : use [quote] to make a clear post it's pretty hard to read with ".
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Re: Grimtooth has some issues

Postby Mathy » 2018-04-23 13:30 (Monday)

And wise men cite sources (from other wise men), so here we go: viewtopic.php?p=9268#p9268
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