Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

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Re: Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

Postby Vham » 2018-04-16 14:44 (Monday)

I've come to a point where I don't feel represented anymore by the player council neither by staff members. Also, I am aware that nothing that I type here will matter. Mathy has a personal problem withh me that extrapolates to any interaction that I have in the oRO discord, but that's not the point here.

Anyway, after this new abrupt change I step one foot closer to just leaving oRO for good. Srsrly, every time I glance at discord and I see GMs interactions with players, everytime I see changes(stupid monster names included) everytime I see messages like "blablabla, you guys only know how to conplain, blablabla, it's just a hobby" I get the feeling that you fear the server to grow beyound your reach. If oRO wants to be big, you havve to let the players play, you have to let the people KS and fight, you DONT have to babysit 24/7. Killing thhe MotD will ONLY benefit the ones who already have leveled their characters with those monsters. Changing a rule at MotD does not change the behavior of a toxic/annoying player, you are just giving the troublemakers voice.

TL;DR
Mom and dad are upset beacause the children didnt behave properly and now we are grounded.
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Re: Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

Postby Mathy » 2018-04-16 16:28 (Monday)

Vham wrote:Mathy has a personal problem withh me that extrapolates to any interaction that I have in the oRO discord, but that's not the point here.

You have a problem with me. And you attack me with sarcastic comments every bloody chance you have. I even notice that you don't join the voice chat when I'm in it. I never had any reason to dislike you (other than a drunken rage that I am willing to leave behind if you stop bringing it up all the time).

Vham wrote:everytime I see changes(stupid monster names included)

Please respect the Donkey Kong lore
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Re: Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

Postby andis » 2018-04-17 04:59 (Tuesday)

I do not understand this new motd rule either.... (/hmm)

Nerf Lava golems? But not kaho? (/heh)


@Vham:
I do not believe that it has such an impact when it comes to 99 a char. Those mobs are still good enough to lvl quick on this Pre-Trans Server. IMO
(/go)  (/go)  (/go)  (/go)  (/heh)  (/heh)  (/heh)  (/x)  (/o)  (/x)  (/o)
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Re: Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

Postby Grace » 2018-04-17 05:50 (Tuesday)

I feel like Kaho should be on the list, however considering how big the map really is in comparison to let's say, Otters, I'd rather prioritize the smaller MOTD maps than an area that can actually carry a lot of people.

I'm surprised MOTD like Stalactic, Solider or Sleeper weren't removed as well, though I suppose that would stretch it.

At least now I can stop seeing "lol theres gonna be lots of reports over this motd xD nubs" in #main, so I'm more than glad the ones in the list got removed.
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Re: Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

Postby Styx » 2018-04-18 05:17 (Wednesday)

You are way too late Grace, You had your piece of cake from it and took it without complaining.
This decision falls in this category: My head hurts, let's cut it off, problem solved.

Though it doesn't solve anything regarding behavior, what happened has no real relation with MOTD, though MOTD achieved just what it was supposed to achieve.
I saw a lot players having fun on those maps.There were incidents on the MOTD maps but that is quite logic when more players are present there will be more tension. Relative seen the situation was still pretty cool.
Those incidents can, did and will also occur on maps without MOTD, because it is the main way to lvl quickly on a Classic server.
If some grumpy players start to complain now, we must realize they did fill their own pockets already with this mechanism like it was their private map and they never had real competition on it.
Very selfish and I notice these players are backed up by fast decision to protect what they want.
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Re: Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

Postby Grace » 2018-04-18 13:29 (Wednesday)

I... actually didn't do much high tier MOTD. Are you confusing me with someone else? I think you are.

I've always wanted them removed. There is no need to jab this on people.

There was no fun on the Otter MOTD. People were fighting, they were excessive mobbing and were warned several times, a literal fight over pixels were brought onto #main as well as #map. So again, I am glad they removed it before it escalated.
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Re: Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

Postby Mathy » 2018-04-18 15:09 (Wednesday)

Due process is tiresome.
Gratifying, but tiresome.
Watching the RRFs several times, analyzing the screenshots and chat, double-checking everything, hearing both sides, watching them fight, asking them to stop fighting, watching them give up fighting, analyzing the chat again.

All that spends a lot of our time. Not gonna say "wastes", because it's something that should happen, but it does get tiresome. And there have been way too many cases lately. Dealing with the amount of sudden reports that would come in whenever there was a "good MotD", plus people pestering us to hurry up, was inviable.

I'm sorry this had to happen.
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Re: Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

Postby Lace » 2018-04-18 20:05 (Wednesday)

If it were solely up to me, I would remove the entire MotD system, Brave Warrior, and the party exp bonus. We are a 5x server and exp should not be handed out like candy. Especially when people take these systems and do everything in their power to abuse or take advantage of them.

Since it is not up to me, perhaps all of you should sit down and realize just how easy it is--and continues to be-- to level on this low rate server compared to others. After you're done, maybe go and organize some parties rather than complaining about ten monsters being removed from an rng rotation that contains dozens and has a high chance of not even picking them.

You are not entitled to free exp. You are especially not entitled to free exp when it comes at the expense of the enjoyment of other players. When players are afraid to enter a map because of consistent poor behavior and antagonism, something needs to change. This decision was a long time coming, and the grade-school level behavior of some players just expedited the process.

If you cannot bear the thought of not getting free exp. If, when superfluous bonuses are slightly changed to reduce the five scoops of extra ice cream on top of your sundae into four, you feel like your fun has been struck down by the cruel and unfair oRO staff who just want to ruin your life and your dessert... Well, then perhaps you would feel more at home on a mid or high rate server.
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Re: Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

Postby Styx » 2018-04-19 12:04 (Thursday)

Lace wrote:If it were solely up to me, I would remove the entire MotD system, Brave Warrior, and the party exp bonus. We are a 5x server and exp should not be handed out like candy. Especially when people take these systems and do everything in their power to abuse or take advantage of them.

Since it is not up to me, perhaps all of you should sit down and realize just how easy it is--and continues to be-- to level on this low rate server compared to others. After you're done, maybe go and organize some parties rather than complaining about ten monsters being removed from an rng rotation that contains dozens and has a high chance of not even picking them.

You are not entitled to free exp. You are especially not entitled to free exp when it comes at the expense of the enjoyment of other players. When players are afraid to enter a map because of consistent poor behavior and antagonism, something needs to change. This decision was a long time coming, and the grade-school level behavior of some players just expedited the process.

If you cannot bear the thought of not getting free exp. If, when superfluous bonuses are slightly changed to reduce the five scoops of extra ice cream on top of your sundae into four, you feel like your fun has been struck down by the cruel and unfair oRO staff who just want to ruin your life and your dessert... Well, then perhaps you would feel more at home on a mid or high rate server.


Yes, they never should have implemented anything at all but they did for many years already. The source of the problem that occurs isn't in MOTD itself, it only occurs there most clear.
However, I didn't experience much problems on MOTD maps, I don’t see much reports about it either. So, likely the problem does mainly exist and bother you in a communication from a restricted group.

This rather lazy solution will once again enlarge the gap for those who can't exploit the tap and IP bonus very well for whatever reason. I will explain that some more. But first you must take notice that the players in this topic opposing MOTD don’t have an issue with behavior in the first place. They bring it up as an issue the MOTD monsters are a source of EXP to good to belong to the intention of MOTD. So, behavior and gains are different approaches but it will be clear that bad behavior will be a welcome but secondary target for them who want to minimize the MOTD.

The issue is legit though because if you know how to exploit the tap and IP bonus for sure it will be 15-30x rate but only for those efficient groups. Without MOTD they still gain 7,5 to 15x rate. For small party’s and leeching the rate will be 5-10x with MOTD and without MOTD 2,5-5x rate. A casual player without an efficient group will average need 3-6 times more playing time to acquire the same result and likely even much more because a lot of good places are unavailable for them. For several years I play on this server with breaks and what I have seen most are those small party’s or leeching it became even more over the years.

Most of the removed MOTD monsters are a very good target for those small party’s exept Majourus and maybe Bathory because those maps are better for a larger group. Now if behavior is the problem, I didn’t experience much problems with MOTD. There were some incidents but in general they never bother with me and I don’t with them. Nobody scared me of the map or did even try so. So, if are buried under reports I suggest you take a close look where they are coming from.

But suppose this is all true it still means you took away the best MOTD monsters for leeching or a small party punishing mostly them for the behavior of some groups who will still have the best piece of cake anyway. If I bring that up and you can’t think of anything else then attacking me to suggest to look somewhere else instead is very poor. It does show the same approach as the decision. Use an easy solution to get rid of a problem.
Therefore your suggestion to leave must be considered seriously since it seems you will just go as far as this stage to get rid of reports and comments.
Last edited by Styx on 2018-04-20 09:08 (Friday), edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

Postby Perq » 2018-04-20 09:06 (Friday)

Lace wrote:If it were solely up to me, I would remove the entire MotD system, Brave Warrior, and the party exp bonus. We are a 5x server and exp should not be handed out like candy. Especially when people take these systems and do everything in their power to abuse or take advantage of them.


While I partially agree on removal of MotD/Brave Warrior. I'd much rather have them changed, than removed, but there is a problem with them interacting in a way they do. They do have their design goals that are somewhat met now but can be done better.

I, however, strongly disagree about party exp bonus. Honestly, I'd rather have base rates be lowered, but party exp bonus to remain.
The thing I like the most about RO is the multiplayer aspect (who knew, MMO game with multiplayer :D). Without the party bonus, there are plenty of situation in which people consider whenever partying up will net them more exp. In many cases they come to conclusion that soloing all day long nets them more than partying up. And it sucks.
This is why I'd much rather have base rates to be lowered to the point in which partying up will net you somewhat the same exp as the rates we have now (and solo will give you less) than removing the bonus. In other words - for me it isn't about leveling up fast, but leveling up the fun way, which for me (and I can imagine quite some other people) is party play.

Ps.

Spoiler: show
Vham wrote:I've come to a point where I don't feel represented anymore by the player council neither by staff members. Also, I am aware that nothing that I type here will matter. Mathy has a personal problem withh me that extrapolates to any interaction that I have in the oRO discord, but that's not the point here.

Anyway, after this new abrupt change I step one foot closer to just leaving oRO for good.

It is very hard to have a worthwhile conversation if you begin your post with this. :S If you're aware that whatever you say won't matter, what is really the point of all this? Pushing into personal area never ends well. :@
Hope it doesn't sound patronizing, but I can't say I'd personally react well if someone tried to discuss something with me and opened the discussion with something like this.
That said, I don't know what is exactly situation between you and Mathy (and not that I care, tbh - it is pretty damn personal). But I don't think it should matter here.
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