Discussion to Battlesmith Guide about Party EXP Improvements

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Re: Need help with my Battlesmith.

Postby Styx » July 1st, 2016, 4:11 pm

replicante wrote:
Styx wrote:
replicante wrote:
Styx wrote:Now we can agree that such builds are hard to level and in practice you have to find a solution for it. Why should it be even more difficult?

What do you mean by this? How come now is more difficult?


Because there is now a larger gap in development between several options to lvl a char.


So basically what you're saying isn't that now is more difficult than it was before, you're saying that now there's this new idea of people playing together that makes things easier and faster. Right?


People together making things easier and faster isn't a new idea, it is one of the basics of this game.
They must work together to make this mechanic work. However, players and groups aren't very social in general.
They will gather a specific group for optimal gains, with other words the succes rate to join a group depend on a specific build for that purpose.
Lucky enough, majority of the players will choose such a char.
In case you don't have that build you will have a problem finding a party. A pro-group will not allow you to join, in general they play very solo based just for this group.
Only if you can supply a char for their strategy they are currently missing, you can join. There isn't any social aspect about it.
Sometimes I had to wait for days before a party and most of the times it wasn't a very good party. It is still fun to join such a group but not to lvl a char.
Why not join the groups anyway with a char that is popular for a party? For some this is possible and certainly I would do so. Though the gameplay is ultimate boring in general just pressing buttons for hours and hours in an idle position. You won't join with your damage dealer because you need it to eventually leech yourself by lack of finding a party and for that matter you can't let them to go out of range from your leech.
None of this will change if a group gets a bonus in EXP, it will only be good for a pro-group and discourage anything else.
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Re: Need help with my Battlesmith.

Postby Kreuzbube » July 1st, 2016, 4:31 pm

Sorry but it's just common sense for most people, especially strangers that build a party to not invite leechers like Forgers & Brewers.
And it surely isn't one of our jobs to make that easier, because it is supposed to be difficult.
While it might be difficult with strangers. Guilds that have a strong bond or friends usually leech each others Leech-Chars.
Some Brewers and Forgers even offer Leeching as alternative payment for their services.

Also I entirely disagree with everything you say.
It is just common sense and part of the game that unusual builds will have it more difficult to get into a party with _strangers_.
That's why you usually have friends and a guild to party up with.

The discussion about Party EXP Improvements has been split from the original topic, since it was absolutely off-topic.
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Re: Discussion to Battlesmith Guide about Party EXP Improvem

Postby Kergal » July 1st, 2016, 4:59 pm

As a counterpoint, the main reason people tend to go solo and dual-client is to keep all the loot for themselves. Because let's face it, most of the time you're going to be spending isn't for leveling, but rather to farm cards, equipments and material. Those "elite" or "pro" people as you call them will still go solo regardless of this change, or still party within themselves or their own guild, since honestly that's just how it goes in most places, regardless of a party buff or whatnot. Endgame isn't about EXP, it's all about the loots, and people will either solo or go with people they trust (a.k.a. their guildies for the most part, or "pro group" as you like calling them) and this change doesn't affect party loots in any way.

At least this change tries to make people, especially newer ones recently joining the server, be more willing to party with others due to the EXP buff. You can still go solo, dual-client, triple, or whatever floats your boat, and can still be extremely effective if you know what you're doing. Honestly I think you're looking too much into it, and the wrong way as well.
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Re: Need help with my Battlesmith.

Postby Styx » July 2nd, 2016, 12:26 am

Kreuzbube wrote:Sorry but it's just common sense for most people, especially strangers that build a party to not invite leechers like Forgers & Brewers.
And it surely isn't one of our jobs to make that easier, because it is supposed to be difficult.
While it might be difficult with strangers. Guilds that have a strong bond or friends usually leech each others Leech-Chars.
Some Brewers and Forgers even offer Leeching as alternative payment for their services.

Also I entirely disagree with everything you say.
It is just common sense and part of the game that unusual builds will have it more difficult to get into a party with _strangers_.
That's why you usually have friends and a guild to party up with.

The discussion about Party EXP Improvements has been split from the original topic, since it was absolutely off-topic.


Yes, it is because

Yes, maybe because majority isn't to bright about this.
Yes, I agree the groups who are mainly selfish based won't invite a brewer or a forger and you support this.
I am only a passenger giving comments, I regret I did give them, wrong server to do so. Just forget about it. Your server will be great.
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Re: Discussion to Battlesmith Guide about Party EXP Improvem

Postby Styx » July 2nd, 2016, 1:35 am

Kergal wrote:As a counterpoint, the main reason people tend to go solo and dual-client is to keep all the loot for themselves. Because let's face it, most of the time you're going to be spending isn't for leveling, but rather to farm cards, equipments and material. Those "elite" or "pro" people as you call them will still go solo regardless of this change, or still party within themselves or their own guild, since honestly that's just how it goes in most places, regardless of a party buff or whatnot. Endgame isn't about EXP, it's all about the loots, and people will either solo or go with people they trust (a.k.a. their guildies for the most part, or "pro group" as you like calling them) and this change doesn't affect party loots in any way.

At least this change tries to make people, especially newer ones recently joining the server, be more willing to party with others due to the EXP buff. You can still go solo, dual-client, triple, or whatever floats your boat, and can still be extremely effective if you know what you're doing. Honestly I think you're looking too much into it, and the wrong way as well.


It isn't about myself. I don't need selfish pro-groups, I rather stay with the noobs, I like them way more to experience entertainment.
A small EXP boost won't change that at all. Players do things they like to do, not things they are forced to do.
I am sorry, but if you have a problem to lvl without a party what contribution you will have for a party at all beside personal profit?
I would refuse to play with you even if I was aware it would be better for myself, I don't like your selfish approach.
If you want my loots, call a time, I don't care about loots. I just wanna have a good time playing without a selfish based group.
I knew a chess club and everyone admired the champ for 5 years in a row, I asked the player who lost all games in that 5 years, why do you come back?
He said, I am not good at this game, I just like entertain myself with it. He doesn't realize you are hurting him with this tweak, I do however, I was the Champ for 5 years, you cowards. :)
You all will suck him to the bone as a slave, none of you will recognize him as the only one who really enjoys to play this game and never any prospect to win anything at all and het get shot in the face because you morons don't know how to lvl without a party. Don't tell me Ro is a social game it isn't for most of you.
Nevertheless, I would join a party if it is fun but I won't help you with your lvling problems, because I know you won't help me.
The average new player will be smart but will have a lack of knowledge, your call, you  want a challenge or want to abuse it to lvl yourself. I did quit PvP long time ago, it is just an E-penis game not interesting at all. Only the AI will mot cheat on me. Maybe WOE if it is a nice group who will calculate they will not make a chance against the pro 3thparty programs WOE gangs and just go there to have a fun time against the impossible.
No you can't control 3thparty tools, you are a liar if you say so.
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Re: Discussion to Battlesmith Guide about Party EXP Improvem

Postby Kergal » July 2nd, 2016, 2:10 am

Yes, maybe because majority isn't to bright about this.


Image

I guess you're much brighter than everyone else which is why you have to conveniently ignore the counterarguments you've been given and not address them at all.

Yes, I agree the groups who are mainly selfish based won't invite a brewer or a forger and you support this.


It's not about being selfish, it's about simple logic. What does a brewer/forger bring to a party? Nothing. They don't add damage, they don't tank, they don't support, they only take experience and loot. So it's logical that you wouldn't want one in a leveling party. Hell, I wouldn't feel comfortable sitting on my ass with a forger while everybody else does the killing. I have to do nothing and I still get exp and loot! In pretty much every server, brewers/forgers/whatever useless PvM character is going to be leveled by a guild, that's how it works. Otherwise, you'd better be inventive with possible forms of payment.

I am only a passenger giving comments, I regret I did give them, wrong server to do so. Just forget about it. Your server will be great.


It's not about giving comments. Hell, I've given my own share of criticism about this server. The difference is the way of doing it. Honestly in all this rambling you've been barely coherent, providing no solid arguments, and going around saying how this is all a conspiracy to benefit pro groups. And here I am, a guy within the guild that held the castle for months (which I guess qualifies for being considered "pro" or "elite"), telling you that you're wrong, that this actually hindered us. Yet you don't see us complaining about it, because we see the actual benefit of this change.

It isn't about myself. I don't need selfish pro-groups, I rather stay with the noobs, I like them way more to experience entertainment.
A small EXP boost won't change that at all. Players do things they like to do, not things they are forced to do.
I am sorry, but if you have a problem to lvl without a party what contribution you will have for a party at all beside personal profit?
I would refuse to play with you even if I was aware it would be better for myself, I don't like your selfish approach.
If you want my loots, call a time, I don't care about loots. I just wanna have a good time playing without a selfish based group.
I knew a chess club and everyone admired the champ for 5 years in a row, I asked the player who lost all games in that 5 years, why do you come back?
He said, I am not good at this game, I just like entertain myself with it. He doesn't realize you are hurting him with this tweak, I do however, I was the Champ for 5 years, you cowards. :)


Image

Honestly. There's just no other thing to say about that. Your personal preferences and whatever the hell that "story/anecdote" is supposed to be have no bearing and actually do not counter my argument in any way whatsoever.

Let me tell you something straight here, let me tell you how leveling a non-PvM character goes pretty much anywhere, because honestly you seem to fail to even grasp the basic concepts. You start on a server, you create your first character, whichever you choose, usually a decent PvM char like an Archer or a Thief, maybe an Acolyte even. You play for a while, maybe meet some people (yeah I know, socializing, it's a pain in the ass) and perhaps eventually you create or join a guild with other people (don't worry, we're getting somewhere with this).

Eventually, you or someone on your guild will say "Oh boy, you know what would be a beauty to have? A insert useless PvM character here" And hopefully others will say "Yeah, that's a great idea!" And then you'll organize a nice party with your guildies (or pro group or however you decide to call them) and level one of those characters to have!

Wait, you don't want to be in a guild? Well that's ok! We have solutions for you! You could look for a party by offering services such as buying discounted supplies and overcharging whatever loot you may find! Maybe even offer to forge them weapons or brew them potions!

But what's that?! You don't want to play with other people at all? Oh no! If only this wasn't a Massively Multiplayer Online game...

Certain chars are not a profit for a party, you will have a very hard time to find one. I played more then 160 servers in all those years, they won't invite you or very rare.


Now I have to ask, in those 160 servers, which was the one constant? Think about that for a sec, will ya.

if you a are not part of group it makes no sense to play this server anymore at all.


Yeah I mean, this server totally takes a dump on solo players, right. I mean, with us being able to multiclient, something that some servers actually forbid, it's like totally impossible to solo level. Also even though probably the most prolific solo player in the server actually disagreed with you on that point, yeah, it's so bad to level alone. And like, I have been dual-clienting since this last update and I haven't noticed any change at all in my experience income, but yeah, totally ruined.

If you leech it yourself it will be at half the speed as solo leveling and I recommend strongly to consider if it will be worth the effort to play at that progress. I wouldn't and probably I am one of the fastest solo lvling player around, a casual or average player will be meat to supply others only. A group getting all out of the party-tap bonus  will outplay you with a progress 15-20x higher.


I assume you have some solid evidence for that 15-20x higher thing right? I mean that's basically one of the basis of this post.

This isn't about chars that are relative easy to solo lvl, I know how to manage that also. It is strange that you declare you can lvl faster solo now since nothing has changed for solo lvling. You have to tell more about how you manage that. This is about chars that are hard to lvl solo. If you make the gap larger versus a group I don't see what good it can bring to individual players. It just won't. The sooner you are high lvl (99), the sooner you can get starting with really serious farming and yes, that's where it is all about. In the end it will lead to low lvl individual players farming for groups for a handful of zeny or to get access to the relative easy to obtain gains from a group out of your reach.


If it's so easy to level solo, then I ask what's the point of this entire post and the convoluted mess it has devolved into? Just leech the damn thing and be done with it. It's easy, I've done it, anybody can do it.

Minsoo Lee didn't develop this game for groups only and he was the man in charge at that time.


And funnily enough, neither this game nor the server is meant for groups only. If this were meant for groups only, then you wouldn't have a Master Account system, you wouldn't be able to multiclient, or maybe you'd even receive a crapton less exp or even loot from doing so. And if you expect a solo player to be always better than a group in a Massively Multiplayer Online game, then you're simply just delusional and this whole thing has been a waste of my time (spoiler: I think it is regardless)

People together making things easier and faster isn't a new idea, it is one of the basics of this game.
They must work together to make this mechanic work. However, players and groups aren't very social in general.


A group not being social is an oxymoron by itself. Not to mention, that if most people (which is what is implied by "in general") weren't very social to begin with, you wouldn't see any guilds at all. But oh look, in the past weeks there have been how many new guilds? And well populated as well.

They will gather a specific group for optimal gains, with other words the succes rate to join a group depend on a specific build for that purpose.
Lucky enough, majority of the players will choose such a char.
In case you don't have that build you will have a problem finding a party. A pro-group will not allow you to join, in general they play very solo based just for this group.
Only if you can supply a char for their strategy they are currently missing, you can join. There isn't any social aspect about it.


I've responded this above, it's simple logic.

Sometimes I had to wait for days before a party and most of the times it wasn't a very good party. It is still fun to join such a group but not to lvl a char.


So you complain about people not wanting to party with bad leveling characters, and then you go and complain about the group not being good to level a character even though you yourself are only adding what effectively amounts to a leech to said party.

Image

Why not join the groups anyway with a char that is popular for a party? For some this is possible and certainly I would do so. Though the gameplay is ultimate boring in general just pressing buttons for hours and hours in an idle position. You won't join with your damage dealer because you need it to eventually leech yourself by lack of finding a party and for that matter you can't let them to go out of range from your leech.


Then why play the game at all? At its core, any game can be described as repetition of basic motions. Also, you do realize there is more than one kind of damage dealer you can create, right? It's not like "oh noes my ONLY damage dealer has overleveled and now I can't leech my other char EVER AGAIN".

I could keep quoting all the nonsense and contradictions in your posts, but I HOPE you get the point by now. You started by complaining that the blacksmith guide is "not for this server" which simply isn't true as it's still perfectly viable to leech it. Then you went on a tangent saying how the server is for "the elite groups an(sic) players only" and kept insisting on that even though, as I've said, the most prolific solo player in the server testified against that claim, and myself, being part of what could be considered an "elite group" also disagree with such statement. After that you just devolved into decreasingly coherent sentences and complete lack of arguments. That's it, I've said all I had to say. If you want to keep believing in this delusion that the server is only for pros and that you're oh ever so bright and are the only one that can see the truth, then be my guest, for as they say, Ignorance is Bliss.
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Re: Discussion to Battlesmith Guide about Party EXP Improvem

Postby Shisus » July 2nd, 2016, 7:09 am

Hi Styx, I think you just need friends. :)
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Re: Discussion to Battlesmith Guide about Party EXP Improvem

Postby Styx » July 4th, 2016, 3:34 am

Hi Shisus wrote:Hi Styx, I think you just need friends. :)


Don't worry, I have friends enough. I just know how to scare off cowards.
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Re: Discussion to Battlesmith Guide about Party EXP Improvem

Postby Styx » July 4th, 2016, 3:39 am

[quote="Kergal
You started by complaining that the blacksmith guide is "not for this server" which simply isn't true as it's still perfectly viable to leech it. [/quote]

The Blacksmith guide isn't made for this server since there are no Mercenary's available. You talk a lot but you don't pay attention and say anything.
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Re: Discussion to Battlesmith Guide about Party EXP Improvem

Postby ShadowMaster » July 27th, 2016, 6:34 pm

Hi Shisus wrote:Hi Styx, I think you just need friends. :)


Hello Shisus, I need a friend..
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