Discussion to Battlesmith Guide about Party EXP Improvements

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Discussion to Battlesmith Guide about Party EXP Improvements

Postby Styx » 2016-06-23 00:25 (Thursday)

This post is an answer to this Thread: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1042&start=20

Nice guide but it is not written for this server. There are no mercenaries available to lvl a forger. In general you won't find a party for a forger unless you belong to a guild or group. This way of lvling is restricted for those only.
If you leech it yourself it will be at half the speed as solo leveling and I recommend strongly to consider if it will be worth the effort to play at that progress. I wouldn't and probably I am one of the fastest solo lvling player around, a casual or average player will be meat to supply others only. A group getting all out of the party-tap bonus  will outplay you with a progress 15-20x higher. Beside this, you have to move your char that gets leeched after sometime because they build in an custom anti AFK element. Because of this feature you can consider it as forcing you to join a group and otherwise you are not really welcome. Still not a big a problem though, it is just annoying. A more serious problem might be that they consider to make it even more difficult to leech yourself by granting the tap bonus only being possible through different IP's. A reason for me to wait for better times and see how this server develops. I wouldn't recommend lvling a forger at this stage of the server.

Update: [New] [Feature]: [e86f5f60, 79f42ac1, ea2b6139, 334937fb, 002476f8, d2104f8c, d71d4a7b, 864922b2, ca6fdf34] Party Exp Improvements. When a real party (as opposed to a dual-clienting party) is detected, an additional exp bonus is granted to all members, depending on the party size.

That means the gap in lvling will be even greater as it already was, if you a are not part of group it makes no sense to play this server anymore at all.
While this idea has some good values, in practice you're progress will mainly depend on a group accepting you. So, this server is for the elite groups an players only in the end. No good group will accept a casual player, unless they are aware you will spend multiple efforts and they can suck them all out of you. I strongly advise any average or casual player to get aware of this approach. They are not developing this server for anyone but for certain groups only.
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Re: Need help with my Battlesmith.

Postby Kreuzbube » 2016-06-23 02:31 (Thursday)

Styx I don't think you understood this change the right way.
It supports groups, a slight bit.
But doesn't nerf or discriminate against multiclienting in anyway.
You can still level as fast as you could before the patch.
And anybody can join a party at any time, since our community is nice and welcoming.
Also levels are not what make you elite in this game. Usually farming is, and this hasn't been buffed for non-multiclient groups.
Just because they can level slightly faster if they have an efficient party, doesn't mean that solo levelers are at an disadvantage.
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Re: Need help with my Battlesmith.

Postby Shisus » 2016-06-23 05:02 (Thursday)

Styx wrote: While this idea has some good values, in practice you're progress will mainly depend on a group accepting you. So, this server is for the elite groups an players only in the end. No good group will accept a casual player, unless they are aware you will spend multiple efforts and they can suck them all out of you. I strongly advise any average or casual player to get aware of this approach. They are not developing this server for anyone but for certain groups only.


Have you even tried the new party system before saying this? It does not cater to certain groups and I see soloing even more efficient (for me) than a party due to the new system.
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Re: Need help with my Battlesmith.

Postby Styx » 2016-06-25 17:01 (Saturday)

Hi Shisus wrote:
Styx wrote: While this idea has some good values, in practice you're progress will mainly depend on a group accepting you. So, this server is for the elite groups an players only in the end. No good group will accept a casual player, unless they are aware you will spend multiple efforts and they can suck them all out of you. I strongly advise any average or casual player to get aware of this approach. They are not developing this server for anyone but for certain groups only.


Have you even tried the new party system before saying this? It does not cater to certain groups and I see soloing even more efficient (for me) than a party due to the new system.


Well, you have to consider how fast partyplay already was against leeching yourself or someone else. due this insane tap-bonus. Don't get me wrong, I know very well how fast such a group can lvl and as long as you have a char that fits in that strategy, they will invite you. They could even depending you have one.
Nothing wrong with that situation, it is a favor for people who know what they are doing.
Certain chars are not a profit for a party, you will have a very hard time to find one. I played more then 160 servers in all those years, they won't invite you or very rare.
This isn't about chars that are relative easy to solo lvl, I know how to manage that also. It is strange that you declare you can lvl faster solo now since nothing has changed for solo lvling. You have to tell more about how you manage that. This is about chars that are hard to lvl solo. If you make the gap larger versus a group I don't see what good it can bring to individual players. It just won't. The sooner you are high lvl (99), the sooner you can get starting with really serious farming and yes, that's where it is all about. In the end it will lead to low lvl individual players farming for groups for a handful of zeny or to get access to the relative easy to obtain gains from a group out of your reach.
Sure, this slave pattern was always present in the game but with more favors for groups only, you will make it better for groups only also. And this game always start always with individuals as potential to grow, not groups. This tweak is a choice for a group only and yes, normally a relative new individual player won't recognize this easy but I know exactly what is going on here.
I think you should consider the consequences, Minsoo Lee didn't develop this game for groups only and he was the man in charge at that time.
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Re: Need help with my Battlesmith.

Postby Styx » 2016-06-25 17:20 (Saturday)

Kreuzbube wrote:Styx I don't think you understood this change the right way.
It supports groups, a slight bit.
But doesn't nerf or discriminate against multiclienting in anyway.
You can still level as fast as you could before the patch.
And anybody can join a party at any time, since our community is nice and welcoming.
Also levels are not what make you elite in this game. Usually farming is, and this hasn't been buffed for non-multiclient groups.
Just because they can level slightly faster if they have an efficient party, doesn't mean that solo levelers are at an disadvantage.


Read my post above, I can confirm anything you said about your community though. Group lvling isn't slightly faster, a good group will outplay an individual by an outrageous lvl, even if this solo player is very pro. It is possible to follow and have some prospects but giving a group more favors is a bad idea really. It doesn't seem so for the average or relative new player groups but their gap against a pro group will be larger also. I am alone now but if I could gather a good group I would demolish and frustrate your average skilled playerbase to the bone with this tweak.
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Re: Need help with my Battlesmith.

Postby Shisus » 2016-06-26 02:54 (Sunday)

Styx wrote:Well, you have to consider how fast partyplay already was against leeching yourself or someone else. due this insane tap-bonus. Don't get me wrong, I know very well how fast such a group can lvl and as long as you have a char that fits in that strategy, they will invite you. They could even depending you have one.


Again, have you tried the new party system before typing these essays? Of course it was fast back then, that's why we were doing it to leech characters (not necessarily a class that fits in the strategy). TBH I have not even seen you try to approach someone to join, or even just socialize. You just stand in Pront and then complain about people partying.

Styx wrote:This isn't about chars that are relative easy to solo lvl, I know how to manage that also. It is strange that you declare you can lvl faster solo now since nothing has changed for solo lvling

I did not say I can level solo faster, but rather more efficiently (compared to a party now) because it is easy to mob with Eddga card. The exp I get is comparable and I get all the loots and rares too. (/no1)
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Re: Need help with my Battlesmith.

Postby Styx » 2016-06-26 07:25 (Sunday)

Hi Shisus wrote:
Styx wrote:Well, you have to consider how fast partyplay already was against leeching yourself or someone else. due this insane tap-bonus. Don't get me wrong, I know very well how fast such a group can lvl and as long as you have a char that fits in that strategy, they will invite you. They could even depending you have one.


Again, have you tried the new party system before typing these essays? Of course it was fast back then, that's why we were doing it to leech characters (not necessarily a class that fits in the strategy). TBH I have not even seen you try to approach someone to join, or even just socialize. You just stand in Pront and then complain about people partying.

Styx wrote:This isn't about chars that are relative easy to solo lvl, I know how to manage that also. It is strange that you declare you can lvl faster solo now since nothing has changed for solo lvling

I did not say I can level solo faster, but rather more efficiently (compared to a party now) because it is easy to mob with Eddga card. The exp I get is comparable and I get all the loots and rares too. (/no1)


Well after, all these years you have learned not to waste time anymore searching for party's for a hard to lvl char.
I already tried the party system and it isn't a problem for the relative easy chars, this tweak doesn't make it better for the relative hard to lvl chars.
This episode isn't efficient enough for that matter. It would be a waste of my time. Ragnarok wasn't balanced at that time, the choice of chars popular was a oneway direction.

Oh Eddga Card, that explains a lot about you. I can't take this serious at all.
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Re: Need help with my Battlesmith.

Postby Shisus » 2016-06-26 09:10 (Sunday)

Lmao you said it yourself. It has always been difficult to find a party in this server regardless of the exp tap or party bonus system. The new party system does not help any character at all. An honest party composed of unique people before and now would still earn roughly the same as each member nets +10-20% more exp (except now the bonus is constant and not all members have to attack a monster). Characters that are useless in parties (e.g. Brewer, forger, certain WoE builds) are at a disadvantage because seldom would people want to leech these characters and in the event that they bring their useful character alongside the useless one, all party bonus will be void because of the presence of an alt so I don't understand how you can say that this new feature is favoring the elite. They even ninja-nerfed the exp tap from 20% to 10%  so it is hard to reach the previous exp/hr. If anything, this new feature is more of a nerf.
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Re: Need help with my Battlesmith.

Postby Styx » 2016-06-27 06:47 (Monday)

Could it possible force the use of another mac to bypass it in general?
I have seen to many places with restrictions like these and players bypass it.
It is an ethical choice based on knowledge and available material.

As you explained it, does this mean the tap bonus is gone?
Suppose, since lack of party I do leech such a char myself, will it take more or less time now to do so?
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Re: Need help with my Battlesmith.

Postby Shisus » 2016-06-27 07:43 (Monday)

Styx wrote:Could it possible force the use of another mac to bypass it in general?
I have seen to many places with restrictions like these and players bypass it.
It is an ethical choice based on knowledge and available material.

As you explained it, does this mean the tap bonus is gone?
Suppose, since lack of party I do leech such a char myself, will it take more or less time now to do so?


Wow you talked about the new system favoring certain groups as if it were fact but you haven't even tried it at all. I did not test it that extensively so I don't know if they determine unique players by IP/MAC address/master account but maybe you should do it so you'll know what you are talking about. :lol: You can still tap but the unique player bonus will be gone. Also, it is understandable that such builds are hard to level because the rewards are good.
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