Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

This is the place where you can chat about anything related to OriginsRO and Ragnarok Online. This is NOT for technical support or requests to GMs.
Forum rules
This section is NOT meant for technical support or GM assistance requests and may be not monitored by GMs everyday. The appropriate places for that kind of requests are the Technical Support forum and the Questions and Support tracker.

Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

Postby Kergal » October 8th, 2017, 6:24 pm

The recent MOTD issue I responded to in the gitlab got me thinking about MOTD itself as well as the way it currently works with the Brave Warrior (aka Floating Rates NPC). First of all, let's talk about what the purpose of each of those features is, and their current flaws in my opinion.


In the case of MOTD, while I'm not sure what the developers' true intention for it is, as I understand it, the idea is for it to give an incentive to people to try out new places and new monsters to level with, to break the monotony of always going to the same places because those the ones that give the best exp. For example, while Male Thief Bug may be inferior to Wolf in an everyday scenario, when it was MOTD I found it giving me much better exp due to the concentration of them, the fact that they're aggressive, and no other people in the map (although sure, the loot still sucks). It's a simple tool that, when configured correctly, can help players break the mould for a while.

The problem with MOTD is that the current pool of monsters is a bit iffy. Not because of the "bad" monsters, but because of the good ones, and in more ways than you'd think, which I'll elaborate later. For now, the simple reason is, people want good MOTDs to be chosen (and by good, I mean a monster that is *already* good in terms of experience, like Wolf, High Orc, Seal), which goes completely against the idea of the MOTD in the first place (once again, at least the idea as I personally understand it). Also an issue is that, as far as I know, it doesn't keep track of the recently chosen monsters, thus it's not uncommon to see the same monster chosen within a short timeframe, like Goblin these past days, Rafflesia a few weeks back, and so on.

As for the Brave Warrior, it's extremely simple. It's intended to be a global zeny sink, with the incentive being that the entire server benefits from increased experience for 48 hours.

The issue with it is that, on one hand, there are no rewards for the specific people that donate to it, so a lot of people that do have amassed riches barely give any money to it since they receive no direct benefit from it. On the other hand, it has a fairly long cooldown, 14 days, so essentially what could be one of the best sinks in the game is very limited, and this plays horribly with the current MOTD mechanics, as I'll explain now.


You could make the argument that there's some synergy between MOTD and Floating Rates, but the way it currently works, I feel like it ends up as more of a detriment. One could say that a good MOTD encourages people to donate to the Brave Warrior to activate Floating Rates. While that's true, as it stands, the only time Brave Warrior gets donated to, is when a good MOTD gets chosen. This, in my opinion, poses two problems. First, the zeny sink gets awfully underused, due to the very high cooldown, as it's considered a complete waste to activate it when there isn't a top tier MOTD active (which goes in hand with the "why would I spend money on this when I don't get a direct benefit?" mentality). Second, it "spoils" players, so to speak, which wait for the aforementioned to occur in order to go into leveling binges, instead of a more regular playing schedule, and hell, you got solid proof with someone asking to remove "bad" monsters from the MOTD pool.

Now the question is, assuming you agree with the points I raised, how could both systems be improved?


In the case of MOTD, I think a good idea would be to remove the top tier monsters from the pool. I've already explained the issues that they cause, and while I understand it'll receive a lot of resistance due to players wanting easy experience, I truly think that in the long run it's gonna be more beneficial. Now what would top tier monsters be? In my opinion, the ones that are already overused in leveling and are the main attraction in the maps where they're present. Wolf, Metaling, Geographer, Mi Gao, High Orc, Seal, from the top of my head.

Also for the repetition part, maybe add a flag of some sort to the monsters chosen within the past 5~10 days, so as to increase variety in the short term and avoid complaints when the same monster gets picked within the same week. As a little aside, I do agree that there are truly some poor monsters that can currently be picked that should be removed, but I think that's only stuff with very low numbers and/or a long respawn timer.

Regarding the Brave Warrior, first I'd suggest giving the top donors a reward of some sort. Doesn't have to be a huge thing, and doesn't even have to be items! Something as simple as recognition is better than nothing at all, and it'd encourage more people to give money to it. Second, I'd suggest reducing the cooldown. I understand the idea that the cooldown is put in place so that people don't activate it all the time and the server essentially becomes a x5~x10 server permanently, but I think with the extremely low usage of it, that won't be a problem. And regarding that last bit, I'd also suggest making the rates float from x6 minimum instead of x5.1.

Yes, removing good monsters at first will remove the biggest driving force towards usage of the Brave Warrior. But in the long run, I think it'll lead to increased overall use of it. Instead of waiting for months for something like High Orc to get picked, it's likely that over time people will cooperate to activate Floating Rates during the weekends, especially with more incentives, once or twice a month. To drive my point further, when's the last time it even got activated? Like two months ago? And as of the day I'm writing this, it currently sits at a measly 530k donated.



So, thoughts and opinions on this matter? Let me state that there's probably a few details I'm missing, and probably some side-effects I'm not considering. I don't mean this to be an end-all suggestion (otherwise I'd have made it a lot more concise and would've posted it on the gitlab instead), but rather an opening to a discussion, because in the end I feel like MOTD could be slightly improved, and more importantly, Brave Warrior should be seeing a lot more use, and as such I'd like to start throwing ideas around to potentially improve them. So by all means please include your own if you have any.
User avatar
Kergal
Player
Player
Poporing
Poporing
 
Posts: 67
Joined: August 15th, 2015, 12:02 am
Gender: Male
GitLab User ID: @kergal
Discord Username: Kergal#0001

Re: Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

Postby Franky4Fingers » October 9th, 2017, 12:14 pm

That was way too long … xD
Nevertheless, I read most of it and totally agree on the following:

and by good, I mean a monster that is *already* good in terms of experience, like Wolf, High Orc, Seal), which goes completely against the idea of the MOTD in the first place


These monsters do NOT need a MOTD. In my personal opinion it also goes totally against the idea of it, which is encourage people to try different places, get different loots, and just increase their overall knowledge of the game.
I am all in for removing these mobs from the pool.

I will add that the best experience ive had with these Mob / map / region of the day was in a different server where the point was to make underused regions XP viable. While they didn’t not match the best XP spots out there, it was still very close, and the better drops would make up for the XP. That server was using a custom region of the day, carefully cherry-picking a set of 2-3 maps where an EXP boost would make the map worth going to.
Franky4Fingers - Farmer Rogue
F4F - Hybrid Sin
User avatar
Franky4Fingers
Player
Player
Marin
Marin
 
Posts: 178
Joined: October 13th, 2016, 4:54 pm
Gender: Male

Re: Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

Postby Ergroilnin » October 9th, 2017, 2:39 pm

Just wanna say that I wholeheartedly agree with the OP.
User avatar
Ergroilnin
Player
Player
Marin
Marin
 
Posts: 148
Joined: February 6th, 2014, 2:39 pm
Gender: Male

Re: Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

Postby Perq » March 23rd, 2018, 9:21 am

Even tho I enjoyed the HO lvling binge, I agree with OP here.

Honestly, I'd remove all the top-tier monsters from the lists and increase the amount of monsters of the day to, say, even 3.
User avatar
Perq
Player
Player
Drops
Drops
 
Posts: 9
Joined: February 17th, 2018, 8:06 pm
Gender: Male
Discord Username: Perq

Re: Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

Postby Styx » March 25th, 2018, 12:30 am

It would be very hard and probably unfair to tweak MOTD at this stage after all these years. It should be restricted to the question why MOTD is there. What is the exact motivation for it?

Anyway HO was nice, I rarely go to HO maps, it is a map mainly good for LK anyway, Cramps was reasonable, I would hardly go there either without MOTD as well.
Both got me around a lvl in leech form lvl 93 to 94.
Today it is Hermit Plant. I will ignore that because it isn't promising at all, despite of Brave Warrior active so I went out to watch a movie instead, I will play later more when something interesting is MOTD again.
Then I don't think a Poring will attract me really as MOTD. Well, it's random 95% it will suck big deal, sometimes it is good.
If they cut out more interesting MOTD, it's fine with me, I will watch even more movies or do other things instead of playing 6 hours in a row for just 50% progress in lvl. The higher the lvl, the less it makes sense anyway.
And Brave Warrior, well it's a zenny sink, not a reward pool. I can't afford to spend even a dime on it. It is already a favor enough for the zeny owners to trigger it when they want it.
User avatar
Styx
Player
Player
Poporing
Poporing
 
Posts: 92
Joined: May 30th, 2014, 10:06 am
Gender: Male

Re: Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

Postby Vlin » March 25th, 2018, 5:02 am

I don't know why we're bumping a 7/8 month old topic... but uh ok...

I disagree with removing top tier mobs from list. We got HO for once in lord knows how long, many many months. Also, brave warrior is a great zeny sink. I can think of at least 10 times it's been donated to, probably more. that's 100 mil off the server. Exp is also a guaranteed thing, brave warrior just helps it a bit (and let's be real, 1/3 of the time the 5.x rates are decent at best but some parties even get lazy enough to disband or take a break at 5.2 or 5.4 or some shit.)

It also heavily promotes party play and community interaction instead if soloing for the most part - especially at higher tier mobs like High Orc, Majoruros, etc. Most of the time if something like a Dryad is motd, I'd rather just solo tele and 2shot DS them. higher tier monsters = more community play. Removing higher tier monsters = less brave warrior donations, and in turn less zeny sink, more lower tier MOTDs will generally lead to less party play. (if anyone bothers to go to most of them at all. which is, yeah... most of the time a crap motd)

And lastly, MOTD is a system that has been in place for years now and all veteran players have had the opportunity to grind hours upon hours at high tier floating rate MOTDs and get some major exp gain out of it. Let's not take that opportunity away from new players, when older ones have already got to enjoy it and heavily benefit from it.

End rant
User avatar
Vlin
Player
Player
Poporing
Poporing
 
Posts: 71
Joined: September 22nd, 2014, 9:34 am
Gender: Male
Discord Username: Vlin#1079

Re: Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

Postby Perq » March 26th, 2018, 8:06 am

I don't know why we're bumping a 7/8 month old topic... but uh ok...


Because it is still relevant and creating another one would be pointless. :P

I disagree with removing top tier mobs from list. We got HO for once in lord knows how long, many many months. Also, brave warrior is a great zeny sink. I can think of at least 10 times it's been donated to, probably more. that's 100 mil off the server.


Well, we've got HO again. :D It isn't the point whenever we get good MOTD. It is that the non-top-tier MOTD isn't good enough and/or people don't care about anything but the top-tier.

And well, 100mil may sound like a lot, but then you realize there is over 10 bilion zeny on the server. We still need a zeny sink that is exponential with its cost, while giving less and less (but maybe kind-of unlimited) power. Or maybe not even power - some sort of permanent server recognition and/or other global/server-wide goal. Maybe ability to change tile sets/looks of certain places (while getting some recognition it form of some signed thingies) for astronomical amounts of zeny?

And about removing it when old players have used it already. Lets be honest here - they are so far away in progress that no new player can ever catch up. Unless these veteran players stop farming for another few years. :P It doesn't really matter at this point.

One thing I agree on - good MOTDs sure create a lot of parties. But on the other hand, there are lots of Majo parties, even when there is no Majo MOTD. Simply because the place is good enough on its own. :)
User avatar
Perq
Player
Player
Drops
Drops
 
Posts: 9
Joined: February 17th, 2018, 8:06 pm
Gender: Male
Discord Username: Perq

Re: Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

Postby ey8 » March 26th, 2018, 8:53 pm

I really think the game as a whole would benefit from having an additional target or two that are undesirable creatures/zones that people would rarely think to hunt. Another game I played made a system revolving around this and it really brought life to some old ignored area's that nobody thought twice about before they added the incentives to go there.
User avatar
ey8
Player
Player
Poring
Poring
 
Posts: 2
Joined: March 12th, 2018, 11:51 pm
Gender: Not Telling

Re: Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

Postby Styx » March 27th, 2018, 12:20 am

Perq wrote:
I don't know why we're bumping a 7/8 month old topic... but uh ok...


Because it is still relevant and creating another one would be pointless. :P

I disagree with removing top tier mobs from list. We got HO for once in lord knows how long, many many months. Also, brave warrior is a great zeny sink. I can think of at least 10 times it's been donated to, probably more. that's 100 mil off the server.


Well, we've got HO again. :D It isn't the point whenever we get good MOTD. It is that the non-top-tier MOTD isn't good enough and/or people don't care about anything but the top-tier.

And well, 100mil may sound like a lot, but then you realize there is over 10 bilion zeny on the server. We still need a zeny sink that is exponential with its cost, while giving less and less (but maybe kind-of unlimited) power. Or maybe not even power - some sort of permanent server recognition and/or other global/server-wide goal. Maybe ability to change tile sets/looks of certain places (while getting some recognition it form of some signed thingies) for astronomical amounts of zeny?

And about removing it when old players have used it already. Lets be honest here - they are so far away in progress that no new player can ever catch up. Unless these veteran players stop farming for another few years. :P It doesn't really matter at this point.

One thing I agree on - good MOTDs sure create a lot of parties. But on the other hand, there are lots of Majo parties, even when there is no Majo MOTD. Simply because the place is good enough on its own. :)


Well it was HO again but I only had 2,3 hours at most today, it brought me to lvl 95, though it could have been more. It is one of the few I could use in leech and no, likely I won't join a party.
I don't have time for it, I have to take care of my grandson on daily base and he > game. No, I am not the oldest player around, not by far even, but most will refuse to tell their age as well as I do.
User avatar
Styx
Player
Player
Poporing
Poporing
 
Posts: 92
Joined: May 30th, 2014, 10:06 am
Gender: Male

Re: Thinking about MOTD and Brave Warrior

Postby Styx » April 16th, 2018, 12:25 pm

Vlin wrote:I don't know why we're bumping a 7/8 month old topic... but uh ok...


Obvious because they had in schedule to change it as they just did today. You must pay better attention.
The statement that they want to force it more to their current intention is way too late though to take that seriously.
Obvious it is more related to protect something else to make this unethical change after all these years.
User avatar
Styx
Player
Player
Poporing
Poporing
 
Posts: 92
Joined: May 30th, 2014, 10:06 am
Gender: Male

Next

Return to General Chat



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests